Roger Dassen, accountant by trade, has just presented ASML’s sixth annual results to the press. Another presentation for shareholders is on the schedule. Compared to 2018, when he became CFO, the company’s revenue tripled. It is his last interview in a long series, but he looks relaxed. He is pushing hard for more women in the workplace – “That needs to change” – and is happy to make extra time to explain how he plans to do that.
He has an impressive list of top positions behind his name. In addition to being executive vice president and CFO at ASML, Dassen is chairman of the Supervisory Board at MUMC+, a professor at VU University Amsterdam, and a member of the Supervisory Board at the Nederlandsche Bank.
Why this is important:
IO sat down with ASML’s top financial executive, Roger Dassen. We talked about the strange year the company is facing, keeping shareholders satisfied, labor migration, how order prioritizing works, and more diversity in the workplace.
Dutch newspaper Trouw wrote, “ASML is facing an unusual year. By that, the newspaper is referring to the fact that you don’t expect growth this year. Is “separate” a good description for how you, as a top financial executive, feel about that?
“Since 2009, this will be the first year we have not grown, so yes, it is a unusual year. We call it a ‘transition year,’ we are going to prepare for 2025, in which we expect a lot of growth. We have several indicators for that. For example, we received many orders in the last quarter of last year, the utilization rate of our machines is increasing, and our customers’ inventories are decreasing. Many positive omens, but of course, it still has to happen.”
In 2023, ASML had a turnover of 22 billion – a growth of 30 percent compared to 2022. In 2024, the company will not be growing. How do you keep shareholders happy when growth stagnates?
“By saying very clearly what we plan to do in the next twelve months, in 2025 and 2030. We have a relatively small amount of customers whose plans we know very well. This allows us to create scenarios for the future. Our investors are not so interested in the short term but mainly in the long term. It’s up to us to outline that long-term as clearly as possible.”
How do you balance concentrating activities in Veldhoven and spreading them to other countries in Europe, Taiwan, and the United States?
“It is the most important piece of our industrial policy: we always want to have development and production close to each other. No two identical machines go out the door here. The design constantly changes, so it is impossible for the R&D and production departments to be ten flight hours apart. In the US, we produce a specific type of machine, so the development of these machines also happens there.”
Back to the Netherlands. ASML now has more than 42,000 employees, just under 23,000 working in the Netherlands. Forty percent of them come from abroad. Are you concerned about politicians’ attitudes toward migrant workers?
“Yes. It’s a simple sum: ASML has to grow. That’s not a choice. We have to grow for the ecosystem around us, which will otherwise stagnate, and we have to grow to meet our customers’ expectations. Our preference is to grow in the Netherlands, but we have to be able to do that. If you look at the number of Dutch graduates, there aren’t enough. So we need international students and migrant workers.”
Migration was one of the main topics during the last elections because people are worried about it.
“That’s true, but it’s a different issue. If we want the knowledge economy to grow in the Netherlands, we need knowledge workers from outside. If we arrive at a point where politicians build a wall around the Netherlands, there will be consequences. Then we may have to conclude that, to grow, we have to go abroad.”
Currently, twenty percent of employees at ASML are women. How does the company ensure a more diverse workplace in the future?
“It starts in the schools. Scientific research shows girls get better grades in engineering subjects in high school than boys. However, at universities and colleges, they need to be more represented in technical studies. We are running from one high school to another to excite students about technical subjects and courses. We have learned important lessons in recent times. Women are still too often inhibited, including here.”
Do you have an example of that?
“Take committees that deal with promotions. If you put ten guys opposite a woman and have her judge what she can or cannot do, chances are they think: when I was in that position, I could already do much more. They don’t see that the woman can do things they can’t. If you let ten white men determine things like promotions, you can’t create diversity in the workplace. So that has to change.”
You have been CFO at ASML since 2018. What is the most significant difference between six years ago and now?
“The company has tripled in size. In 2018, people were still trying to decide whether we would get an EUV machine up and running. The challenge is scaling up and making the production process reliable and efficient. Our processes must become as simple and robust as possible. At the same time, we are investing in developing new, excellent machines.”
And for you personally?
“At Deloitte (where Dassen was CEO, ed.) I was a consultant among consultants. Here, I am a consultant among engineers. Engineers communicate very differently from economists and lawyers. They are very graphic, while economists and lawyers want to see words. I had to get used to that, but now we understand each other quite well (laughs).
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