One grew up in Tabriz, Iran, develops the world’s first fully customizable and adaptive Autonomous Mobile Robot (AMR) with Starnus Technology and is determined to make his company a unicorn within five years.
The other was raised in the South of Limburg, the Netherlands. He founded Alltrons, a company that develops software and hardware solutions for clients, at the age of 18; now, 23 employees are on the payroll.
Both twenty-somethings started their company from a TU/e student team, are busy doing business day and night, and learned to deal with setbacks at a young age. Khashayar Mansourizadeh (29), founder and CEO of Starnus Technology and Kayle Knops (27), co-founder and CEO of Alltrons, join us for a conversation about failure and success, their plans for the future and the role incubator Twice plays in that.
- Khashayar Mansourizadeh and Kayle Knops, both in their twenties, have founded successful companies: Starnus Technology and Alltrons;
- Both companies are based in Alpha on the TU/e Campus, benefiting from the supportive environment of incubator Twice;
- They emphasize the importance of learning from failures, making strategic choices, and seeking advice from fellow entrepreneurs in their journey towards building successful companies.
No small talk but entrepreneurial questions at the coffee machine
The two entrepreneurs know each other; they are neighbors. Both Starnus and Alltrons are housed in Alpha on the TU/e Campus. Alpha is a start-up hub from Twice for tech companies. The interview occurs in Twinning, a building for companies that have outgrown the start-up phase.
“The atmosphere is quite different here,” laughs Knops. “In Alpha, we drive robots along the corridor; here, I wouldn’t do that,” Mansourizadeh agrees. Alpha is on the TU/e Campus, teeming with TU/e, Fontys, and Summa College students. And both Knops and Mansourizadeh desperately need them.
Knops: “We used to be on the High Tech Campus, but that is too far away for many students. Since we are in Alpha, students work double the number of hours for us. Without Twice, we would never have been able to rent an office in this location, so we are very happy about that.” Mansourizadeh nods in agreement.
Nodding when the other is speaking is characteristic of the conversation between the two young entrepreneurs. They recognize much in each other’s story. Entrepreneurship is about making choices, and that is often difficult.
Alltrons: from webshop to keyboard to developing company
Knops’ company has already gone through many different phases. When Knops turned eighteen, he founded Alltrons, a webshop based on Magento software. With the profits, he bootstrapped his company. Knops developed several software and hardware products, including a pressure-sensitive keyboard that could not only see whether users press a button, but also how far. At first, Alltrons focused on keyboards for the gaming industry, but later increasingly on developing solutions using mechanics, electronics and software.
Meanwhile, the company develops software and hardware primarily for other parties. But, warns Knops, the start-up cannot be pigeonholed. “We are an engineering consulting firm, an R&D company, but we also make prototypes for customers.”
That Knops chose to sell a service rather than the keyboard marks an essential point on Alltrons’ timeline. “We could have marketed the keyboard but chose to work as consultants then. The keyboard then became an afterthought. I often think back to that – where would we have been now if we had prioritized the keyboard?”
Starnus Technology
The Eindhoven start-up from founder Khashayar Mansourizadeh is developing a modular robot system that automates all horizontal movements within a logistics distribution center. The system promises to be able to pick twice as many orders as current robots
Alltrons B.V.
Alltrons began with a pressure-sensitive keyboard for consumers and professionals. The company of Kayle Knops has since shifted its focus to developing software and hardware solutions for customers in various industries.
A swarm of robots: great idea on paper
“I recognize that,” Mansourizadeh responds. “You constantly have to make choices, which doesn’t always work out. But you get used to failure at some point. Something fails, and you try again without thinking too long.”
Knops: “What do you consider your biggest failure?”
Mansourizadeh: “My dream was to develop a swarm of robots that work together in a hyper-flexible way. It was a great idea on paper and a good subject for my research, but it didn’t work in the real world. It is too complex and therefore too expensive.”
As a tech entrepreneur, there are two options: keep the technology and change the customer, or keep the customer (and the problem) and the product. Mansourizadeh chose the latter. “I was at odds with myself. I had worked on that technology for years and didn’t want to give it up. But the partners I talked to all had two problems: an insufficient workforce and robots that are not flexible enough. So, there was a market, but my original idea of a hyper-flexible robot swarm would not solve the customers’ problem. Now we are developing adaptive, flexible robot systems.”
Too many people or too many projects
So, both Mansourizadeh and Knops are now building on a different concept from the original idea. Knops struggles with flexibility. “We constantly have either too many people or too many projects. It happens regularly that clients have to wait because we don’t have enough people. It would have been easier if we had investors instead of financing everything ourselves. Now, we solve it by going one gear slower. After all, compromising on quality is never the right option.”
When Knops moved into Alpha almost two ago, five people worked at Alltrons. Now there are 23 (although most of them have parttime jobs). Recently, one of them got a permanent contract for an indefinite period of time; the first one in the history of Alltrons.
Recently, someone went into permanent employment for the first time. “At first, it was mostly students working for us, now more and more people with families. Sometimes, I still find that a scary thought. In the beginning, I could not go into town on the weekends, so to speak, to save money. If we make a wrong decision now, it no longer affects just me. Luckily, it also has advantages; we hired two project managers who have taken over much of my work. It was the first time in 1,5 years I took a holiday that lasted longer than a weekend.”
Choose your sacrifices
“A good, healthy company can do without its founder,” Mansourizadeh adds. “I hope Starnus will also become such a company in the future.” His role has also changed constantly in recent years. He went from engineer to software engineer to mechanical designer. “I know something about everything, but we have found someone who can do it better than me for every part. In five years, I want to have made Starnus a unicorn. I’m looking forward to our company’s stable foundation, so we don’t have to think about little things all the time.”
Knops: “I understand what you’re saying, but right now at Alltrons we’re still struggling, too. You want to keep everyone happy – customers, employees, suppliers – but that’s hard when you’re growing. So, our first goal is stable, linear growth where we’re big enough to put that struggle behind us.”
Mansourizadeh: “Choose your sacrifices. That’s the most important advice I’ve ever received. As an entrepreneur, you will always have to give things up, but make sure you decide what you give up. That means, for example, deciding to go rather than leaving a client yourself.”
“That, and talking to other start-ups, scale-ups, and mature companies. I see exchanging experiences with other entrepreneurs as a crucial part of entrepreneurship. That’s also why Twice is so important.”
“At the coffee machines in Alpha, we don’t do small talk,” Mansourizadeh adds. “We talk about raising investments, bringing in customers and who to go to for drafting terms and conditions. We learn a lot from that; we’re all in pretty much the same boat.”
About Twice
Twice wants to strengthen the climate for hightech start-ups in the Brainport region. The incubator does this by, among other things, renting out offices and lab spaces and helping with advice and financing. In addition, the young entrepreneurs can also expect intensive guidance, helping them to turn their idea or technology into a mature company.
“We help entrepreneurs grow their businesses in a good and healthy way. One way we do this is by opening up our network. For example, we have an arrangement with accounting firm EY who have a special department for high-tech start-ups,” says Marc Kuipers. Kuipers has been a director at Twice since February last year. Before that, he worked in commercial real estate, but he was looking for a position with a greater social interest. “I absolutely found that at Twice. I love seeing high-tech initiatives emerge and grow. It’s very nice to be able to contribute to the success of young companies as a start-up incubator.”
Start-ups basically enter into a rental contract for seven years with a four months notice period. Using a growth model, they move through Twice’s six buildings. New entrepreneurs with an idea can start at The Gate, a counter they can use for free. Then the start-up can develop further in the Alpha hub, where the first prototype and pilots are created. Once the first sales are made, it can move on to Twinning. βèta, Mµ and Catalyst are there for the final phase, where the company is supported on its way to maturity. Kuipers: “The best part is when we see the companies grow through our buildings. From an idea, to a prototype, to initial sales and then a mature company.”
Collaboration
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